Would we like to have "Workshop" forums for art and writing on Haven?

 So, what do folks think?  Forums where you could share tips and techniques about writing and art, or no?  Is the Critique Welcomed tag enough?  Would an open suggestion/advice/critique forum breed bad feelings between users?  Would it be "Post at your own risk"?  Thoughts? Ideas? Cookies? Donuts?

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The Haven Moderator of Many Names

If you need me, find me here:
Neesy - Alliance main
Ineesa - Healer Alt
Lorith - Retired Alliance main
Artisania - Horde main

Take your pick!

I, for one, would very much like the chance to have my work critiqued.  I know I have a lot of room to grow, and that I can be very redundant.   If anyone ever has suggestions for me, I welcome them.   I don't think there's a single post of mine that isn't marked Critique Welcomed.  :3

I'd love to see a 'workshop' thread for tips, tutorials and links for sure. Art and writing both.

Critiquing someone's actual work I think is well covered by the 'critique welcome' tag in general, although if someone chose to deliberately submit a particular piece for a 'group therapy' critique or something, that might be interesting too.

That might work well for Taduriel, for example, (hi Tal) since he seems keen to improve as a writer and sounds like he'd go for being put under the microscope!  On the whole, though, the Haven has such a variety of people who write that it would definitely have to be a specifically-submitted thing.  Many people (myself included!) write or draw more to fill out our characters' activities and have no interest/ability/ambition at/to being actual *writers* or *artists*.......but for those seeking serious improvement and with ambition in an area of art or writing, a group-critique thing might work very well.

It also depends a little on who would be doing the critique.  Everyone piling in might not be a good idea.  Again using myself as the example, I never critique really because I do not believe I have the foundation from which to do so -  Grammar is married to Grampa as far as I am concerned.  I thought a conjunction was an eye disease.  Thus whoever submitted themselves to the process might have to be willing to filter the results a little  :)

((The 'critique welcomed' tag does nothing.  I, for one, love getting and giving comments, sharing thoughts and ideas about my and other peoples' writings, and I've noticed that even when I have written something I'm not so sure about, and would *really* like feedback (positive or negative) I will hit that tag, and.....!  Nothing!  So, I think this workshop idea would really drive the point home. XD  "Comment, darn you all!" it would say.  And it would be delicious.  o_o))

No one respects the flame quite like the fool who's badly burned-- Pete Townshend

We already have an art workshop group that doesnt get much use/postings. Before I vote in the poll, can you explain what you had in mind and if it would be any different? My biggest thought right now is that if it was the same as the other (just a group we can post to), it might not get much action. :( 

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As the person who started that art group, I can say yes, groups do suck. That said, I like the idea of WIP and Workshop forums, but I did hear one thing as I was reading through these comments that I would say deserves clairification.

Critique has one purpose and one purpose only, to help an artist (writers, painters, etc.) accomplish their artistic goals. That may be to write a more appealing story, or achieve a lusterous skin tone, a beautiful composition, or a chordal harmony. It is however most assuredly not a place for discussion of philosophy and debate. Critique is not criticism. Whether you like a piece of art is immaterial in critique. What you think it means is only material to the point of whether the artist's intent has been communicated. All that matters in critique is how the execution of the art serves the artist's intentions. Whether you agree with those intentions is not the point. When you're offering feedback it is VERY important to keep this in mind. It is a concrete exchange of information that an artist can use to change their work. Critique is  NOT a platform for the persons to espouse their opinions and theories. Concrete examples and suggestions that give the artist ways to improve the piece, and blunt feedback of how a piece reads to you, these are what the artist needs to better target their work. Critique is to help people learn how to do things better. It is not combat, debate or a struggle of wills. It is about cooperation, not conflict.

Also, a person asking for a critique needs to be honest with themselves about what they are asking for. More than honest, they need to be proactive and make clear what they want help with. Ask specific questions like, "Is this part working?" or ,"How might I better do..." Don't just throw your work down and say fix it to the community. You need to be as involved in this, asking questions and taking note of the feedback you get. Do you have to do everything everyone says? Absolutely not. Sometimes feedback will not take you to a place you care to go. Sometimes you will disagree with it. DO NOT ARGUE WITH IT HOWEVER. You asked for help, they gave it. Be respectful and don't argue that their impression is wrong. It's their impression, not yours. Learn from it, and if you get enough feedback pointing to the same thing, examine your own perceptions of your work. Perhaps it needs a shift. As a person taking critique you need to be very very open to change. It doesn't matter how much you love any one part of your piece, if you have a whole class of folks saying it just doesn't work and showing you why and how you can fix it... FIX IT. Don't throw their words and back in their face and call your self and artiste. You're not. Artists of all sorts create for their own enjoyment and need, but they give their art to an audience. That's part of the gig. By taking critique, you're opening yourself to an audience of peers, fellow artists. Respect them, take their advice gratefully, use it to better your vision.

*gets off her soapbox*

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I would like more people to comment on my work, check them out, give me some pointers and such as that is why I post my artwork because im open to comments and advice, but so far I hadnt had many people come up and say what they thought of my work, what can I improve... which is kind of disencouraging for me (but thats my opinion)

I know my grammar isnt that good or my art work, but I do try to improve, and I would like to encourage more opportunites for people to work together, support, give critques and so forth, instead of ... more like cliques where one person post something, and everyone of that clique comments especially if its completely in a positive light like for example, " Oh I think your work's the best out of everyone's" as I feel that disencourages people from outside that person's group from commenting or feeling good about their own work IYKWIM.

I want more people to come across , break the mold (or is it mould? will correct self later) so to speak and go oh yeah I like this or hey, just an idea, how  about tweaking this and that, not social groups that you revolve in gush about it because that kind of fails to meet the purpose because you want critque, but get something like that. As I said before, my opinions though, and I know I'm not popular *smirks slightly*.

"My thoughts of severed silks and ties, Of bloodied hearts and hands, My friends I think of you"

 I'm glad to see so many positive responses to the workshop idea.  I'll see what we can do about getting them up over the weekend.  =)

_________________________________
The Haven Moderator of Many Names

If you need me, find me here:
Neesy - Alliance main
Ineesa - Healer Alt
Lorith - Retired Alliance main
Artisania - Horde main

Take your pick!