Outreach and the Realm Forums, should we?

I'm posting this just to get a feel for where people are in their thoughts. If you're going to comment, please keep your scope tight. We've had a lot of wrangling over this issue already so there's no need to turn this into another 100 comment thread and repeat what's already been said. I just want to get a snapshot of Haven public opinion.

Dude, I just ranted about this in the thread I started that went off on a crazy train tangent  ;)

I'll say it again here!  I damn well *object* to being told Haven is insular.  Is there anyone on this site who consciously only RPs with people they recognise from their posts here?  I don't know anyone!  Whereas I know many, many people who have had whispered convos with new RPers and have told them about Haven, events and the like.....in fact twice this week I have had IC interactions with people at mailboxes (not the dancing kind of interaction!) and recommended Haven and Fancy Cakes to them.

What 'outreach' are you advocating?  Or suggesting, perhaps you're not advocating  ;)

Anyhow, I voted 'maybe' because it depends what exactly the options are.....and mostly being in game and in character, spreading the good word and having fun is what counts as far as I am concerned.  (Maybe I'm biased, but that's how I got started - eavesdropping on RP by others and someone (yay Olm!) telling me about RealmPortal when I RPed at him).  And I think the vast majority of Haven users are already doing these things.

PS (EDIT):

You know what?  Forget all that.  I will be more concise:

I RP with people based on who I bump into/what they're doing in-game and sometimes stalking them from their blogs.  They may or may not use Haven.  They may or may not be experienced RPers.  They may or may not know me.  It's about having fun at the time.

I resent the implication I have obligations to nurture something amorphous called 'the community' (naturally 'not being a griefer' is an obligation).
I resent even more the implication I am not fulfilling said obligations.

Each of us should do as individuals what we can to ensure we enjoy the game and don't interfere with other people.  I don't believe in a mandated list of Things We Should All Do, and this includes evangelism.  Leave it up to each person to decide on their path through WoW RP and interactions with that world.

So yeah, I'm irritated although it's a culmination of a few threads and not specifically Eri's question here.

I want to define my choice: Yes, but in context.

I *like* the realm forum.  I like it for what it is.  It's not an RP-centric place.  Yes, you can RP there.  In the past year I have seen RP blogs and threads there that have gotten positive comments and not a hint of negativity.  It's perfectly safe to post about RP there or even post a story there.  That's not really what it's for, though.

The realm forum, to me, is the catch-all communication place of the server.  It's the place people go to organize PuG raids, to recruit for guilds, to post RP events, to ask about the server, to complain about Wintergrasp.  People come there from all over, and it's one of the first places people look when they come *back* to the server.  It's certainly one of the first places people look when they are figuring out if they want to join the server.

The other thing that is on the realm forums is a whole other community, with many of the same names you see here, and some that might be foreign to us.  Feisty has his "corner", a thread of chatters that goes on and on.  I've always been happy that I've used the realm forum enough that I'm familiar with these friendly folks, and they're familiar to me.

It was actually the community on the realm forum that got me to switch to Shadow Council from Feathermoon way back when. I posted a "Should I check out this server for RP?" thread, and soon enough some friendly people had answered, including Adriano, who said he'd send me a Winter's Veil Gift (which he did, in-game) if I joined.  How could I not, after that??

So every day I scan the Realm Forum and post to people wondering about the server.  Sometimes I post in the chatty threads, sometimes in others.  Always about RP.  For a while there was a terrific RP thread going on started by a troll named Wyntis - I heard from him once in-game, but I've never seen him here.  It even pulled in a notorious PvP/PvE'er who was all nervous about trying RP.  Granted, it died out, and there were only ever three or four participants, but it was pretty awesome to have a 6-7 page RP thread going on there, and I'd love to see it happen again.

I would love to see more RPers use the realm forum.  Really.  Yes it has it's bullies and jerks and annoying people you learn to not even read, but so does every internet forum.  You don't go there expecting to make bosom buddies with everyone you talk to, but it's a place to put information out there and connect with some people.  Do I post blogs there?  No.  Do I mention Haven and what it is every time someone wonders about the RP on ShC?  Yes.

That's all it really needs.  And more people posting about RP on it, so that not *every* thread is recruitment for ICC-25.

Oh: heh, and because Heulwen's post reminded me - I don't post on the realm forums because I think Haven is too insular.  I don't think Haven is insular.  To be honest, I couldn't care less about the majority of people who use this site anymore, any of their guilds or groups or cliques or whatever, whether they are exclusive or inclusive or whatever. They are having fun enjoying the game with the people they want to enjoy it with.  So am I.  A good number of people I play with don't use Haven and some don't even know what it is.  So what?  So what if I played with only the mods here?  That's my choice.  The site itself is open and the majority of the people here are friendly and welcoming to new RPers.  This "insular" thing is the kind of label we get just for being RPers, because everyone has to be put in their corner and told they're bad in some way by someone else, all the time, because that's what people like to do on the Internet.

(( The choices in their current form are a little loaded, methinks.  I don't think Haven is "insular" but I do think yes, definitely, posting on the realm forums is always a good idea.

Why do I think so?  Because whether we like it or not, regardless of our feelings on the conduct of the vocal majority, regardless of how little attention we feel is generally paid to RP posts, regardless of fears that RP posts might be trolled, et cetera ... the realm forums are the front door and welcome mat for our server, where out of game resources are concerned.  I don't think this fact can really be refuted.

Not everyone learns of our server via the forums, but plenty of people do, as evidenced by the "how's the RP here?" posts that pop up with some frequency -- and that doesn't even count the lurkers.  That's where many people get their first impressions; it behooves us to make sure they get a good one.

Haven's a great site, Realmportal was a great site, but they've never been and can never be the front-door-and-welcome-mat combo, despite our best wishes.  If few of us hang out there to greet people, many of them will never even know we're here. ))

Interestingly a blog I posted on the Realm Forums kept getting all comments deleted from it. I saw at least two, and when I went to reply, they were gone. They weren't troll replies, either. I'm not sure what that means, and maybe I'm just being paranoid, but its been making me hesitant to cross-post. BLIZZARD CONSPIRACY!1!

((I don't think the Haven community as a whole is insular, despite what it may seem from my other thread comments.

Individual people, however, can be. As Tavlo says, for some folks that's fine and how they enjoy things, if their RP time is limited.

But for the folks looking for more and new and different RP, it's not "just fine" to only play with their friends, guildies, and the people they've met via Haven. Some may not know how to branch out (hence Heulwen's thread), while others may not know they're blocking out potential new contacts.

It's never a bad idea to continue to promote Haven and other ways of connecting to RPers across the server, as not all of them will use Haven--I know a lot of RPers who don't for whatever reason, as I'm sure everyone does. So how do the rest of us connect with those scattered folks?

The only official recourse aside from the usual in game attempts is usually the realm forum, as it's the communication tool offered by Blizzard for any out of game chatter, whether that be LFM ICC25, Feisty's latest Corner, creating new Arena teams, or RP events and posts.))

You can count me as one of the insular ones.  If proselytizing to the great unwashed masses is your thing, go for it.  But then again, I am an anti-social curmudgeon, as evidenced by the fact that in 5+ years of playing this game, never once have I joined a guild.  

I see the realm forum as being like craigslist for ShC.  There's definitely some worthwhile things on there, but most of it is just people crapping out their own mouths to see themselves talk, and I don't have the time, patience, nor inclination to go sifting through all the bullshit on a treasure hunt, nor do I have anything to offer of myself on it.

I don't think it would hurt at all for a conscious effort to make the realm forums look less of a haven for trolls, raging at WG, and progression guild split ups; and look more like a server friendly and welcoming to Roleplayers-new and old.

At least it would be nice to have more than one or two RP related posts on a page at any given time.

I think we need to ignore the occassional trolls who are trying desperately for people to respond to them so that they might have the comfort that someone in this dark world actually cares about something they said.  The Shadow Council forums is the best way we have to get in touch with the largest mass of players on Shadow Council - and even then it's a minority of them.  We should utilize this with less fear and loathing and more eyerolling and smirking in the knowledge that at least we have fun playing the game our way.  Why do we have to justify our actions to other people?  Why should we freak out when people who don't roleplay make assumptions on our gaming?  Half the bitter non-roleplayers I've ever spoken to haven't even seen roleplaying, and the other half get the bad impression they have from roleplayers who are so intent on preserving their personal enjoyment that they have no respect for the gaming of others.  Let's not become that which we despise:  opening up to the realm as a whole in a welcome, encouraging manner can only help.  Any possible trolls and disruptive players are less than insignificant and absolutely should not be feared or even acknolwedged. There's no way anyone can affect the quality of our gaming unless we allow them to do so:  we are the authors of our own entertainment :o)

When I was starting out on this server, I knew one person A-side and one H-side.  It took me a while to find any RP until I discovered Realmportal, it really helped me find people to socialize with and get over that "I'm new and shy" hump.  I think if more people looking to join or switch to ShC for RP knew about the site and could break into the community, it might help keep them here.  I feel that too often people just join the server, can't find enough rp or events and move on to the next one, if we reach out a little bit, we might keep the community growing and evolving.

Question, does anyone know the procedure for getting a post stickied on the Realm Forum?

((

Go here folks and give your input. Once it's finalized it'll go up on the Realm Forums, then I'll need your help to get it stickied.

))